On a recent episode of Pablo Torre Finds Out, ESPN journalist Pablo Torre and comedian Jay Jurden explored the complicated relationship between masculinity, sports culture, and homophobia, with a focus on mixed martial arts and the performative masculinity exemplified by figures like Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
The conversation began with Torre noting a statistic: there are currently zero openly gay active players across the NBA, MLB, NHL, and NFL.
Jurden responded, “They always come out after they retire.” He referenced Michael Sam, the former NFL prospect whose coming out generated significant media attention but limited professional opportunities.
“It’s really tough. It was tough for him to like find his way in the league because for his position, he was undersized and he had trouble penetrating and he weren’t that good of a football player,” Jurden joked, highlighting how discussions of gay athletes often get deflected into debates about performance rather than acceptance.
Torre brought up his reporting on Derek Gordon, the first Division I men’s college basketball player to come out while actively playing. Gordon played at UMass before transferring to Seton Hall, where he stopped discussing his sexuality publicly.
“However comfortable or safe you thought it was because this guy existed, just know that he’s basically decided I can’t be out anymore,” Torre explained.
The conversation then turned to MMA, which Jurden identified as particularly significant in comedy circles. “The one sport that comedy seems to be obsessed with it’s not the NFL. It’s not the NBA. It’s not the MLB. It’s not hockey. It’s MMA,” he said.
Torre noted Joe Rogan’s role as an MMA evangelist who built his media empire on the sport, becoming “an acolyte of MMA for the masses.”
Torre pointed to the paradox at MMA’s core: “As much as those are some of the most homophobic sports in terms of the physics…”
Jurden agreed, saying: “In terms of the grappling. Yeah.”
Torre continued: “Just like the sheer we’re going to hug each other.”
Jurden joked about announcing in his new standup hour that he would “hook up with Joe Rogan. Not because I want to, but just to ruin his reputation.”
The comedian argued that MMA culture embodies contradictions: “These men understand both like the power and the beauty of the male form. There’s an appreciation absolutely of men, of masculinity, of perfect male bodies. So, it is very funny to watch as an out queer man, see these people be so homerotic but also so homophobic.”
This dynamic, Jurden suggested, extends throughout sports culture. Discussing the NFL Combine, Torre revealed that “there are many, many professional scouts whose job is to assess these young men’s butts” because “it is where you derive so much of your athletic greatness.”
Jurden responded: “The really interesting thing about sports is that you have to cover it in a non-gay way, but the conversations you’re having are very homoerotic.”
The discussion then addressed RFK Jr.’s viral workout videos, particularly footage of him doing leg presses in jeans.
“A man who has a legacy and… he’s a nepo baby telling us what we should do, all while showing us that he doesn’t know how to do it. And he’s doing it so poorly that he’s a danger to himself and others,” Jurden said. “It is a perfect encapsulization of what’s going on with the American experiment right now.”
The jeans themselves, Jurden argued, represent “a memeification of everything” where attention matters more than authenticity. “This body worship that these men are doing, it’s like a lot of straight trends. It’s gay, but it’s just 20 years late,” he concluded.
Torre summarized the phenomenon simply: “It’s all dudes.” Jurden agreed: “Have you seen the meme where it’s like whenever a guy starts working out, he thinks it’s going to be all this attention from women being like, ‘Oh my god.’ But then the minute you get big enough, it’s a bunch of dudes being like, ‘Hey, so like what’s your split, bro?'”
Jurden ended on a hopeful note, citing younger athletes like Caleb Williams who paint their nails and reject rigid masculine codes. He recalled men in Chicago getting manicures and pedicures in support of their quarterback: “Someone said, ‘He didn’t tell you to get pedis.’ And they’re like, ‘I kind of just wanted to.'”
