On a recent episode of Triggernometry, host Konstantin Kisin raised the maternal pay gap as a counterargument to Christian nationalist Andrew Wilson‘s claim that women hold more societal privilege than men. Wilson had been listing privileges he believes women enjoy, and Kisin attempted to offer the lifelong earnings penalty of motherhood as a comparable burden to men facing the military draft.
Kisin began by framing the issue around the biological and career realities of motherhood.
“Women bear children and men don’t,” he said. “And there’s a huge disadvantage in all sorts of societal outcomes from a materialistic career perspective, to spending the time to bear the child and then to nurture that child.”
Wilson quickly pushed back, interrupting the point and challenging the framing of the gender pay gap discussion.
“What? Wait, what? That’s backwards,” Wilson said.
Kisin pushed back, saying, “No, no, hold on. The gender pay gap discussion, which is kind of st*pid in a lot of areas, is actually a reflection of the fact that there is a motherhood gap in lifetime earnings, which is if you’re a woman who bears children and looks after… you take time off, then over the course of your life, you will earn less.”
Kisin used it to reinforce his argument about trade-offs between men and women.
“So that would be one disadvantage that I could give you where women contribute a different thing. So you might say, well, men get drafted, women carry children.”
Wilson, however, rejected the idea that motherhood constitutes a disadvantage at all, responding with a sarcastic tone.
“It’s not a disadvantage,” he said. “Oh no. Oh, they have to stay at home. Oh. And raise their kids. Oh. Ah. What? Where’s the disadvantage again?”
Kisin then turned the comparison back to the risks faced by men in wartime. “The men get drafted,” he said. “Where’s the disadvantage?”
Wilson answered bluntly. “They d*e. They get sh*t in the face,” he said.
Kisin pressed further, expanding the comparison to include both financial and physical risks associated with childbirth.
“And women earn less money over the course of their lives and have to carry a risk to their life potentially,” he said.
Wilson countered by arguing that staying home to raise children can come with financial and logistical benefits.
“What they have instead is they now don’t have to pay for daycare and they can depend on somebody else’s income which is taking care of them,” he said. “Oh, that’s terrible. Oh my god. You get to stay at home and you don’t have to do anything except raise your kid. Wow.”
He then continued by questioning how demanding full-time parenting truly is in modern households.
“And by the way, they’re putting their kids on a bus almost every morning to go to a public school,” he added. “They don’t even have them for eight hours out of the day most of the time. So like, how is this the most incredibly difficult job ever?”
Kisin attempted to bring the conversation back to the physical demands of pregnancy itself. “You watched your wife carry the baby or babies inside her for nine months,” he said. “Like that’s a big deal.”
Wilson acknowledged the point briefly but maintained his broader position about household dynamics.
“Sure,” he said, before adding, “In a two-income household, it’s a privilege that women get to stay at home. It’s a privilege.”
Kisin concluded by noting that many women still face financial setbacks after returning to the workforce.
“Most women in America then go back to work at a disadvantage,” he said.
Wilson remained unconvinced, returning to the idea that parenthood is ultimately a voluntary choice.
“Well, that’s not a disadvantage, though, right?” he said. “They don’t have to have children. You have to go out for a draft.”
